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River Ave. Blues » Roy Halladay » Page 3

Olney: Behind closed doors, the honest truth

December 3, 2009 by Benjamin Kabak 132 Comments

As Mike noted earlier today, the Yankees Brain Trust has assembled in Tampa to begin preparing for next week’s Winter Meetings. One name bound to come up — as it has numerous times this week — is Roy Halladay. The Blue Jays want to trade him, and the Yankees have the pieces to acquire him.

As Halladay’s name has been the most talked-about this Hot Stove League, we have a general sense of what the Blue Jays want from a potential trade partner. Since the team has to replace one of its most beloved players who also happens to be a high-impact player, Toronto wants a Major League-ready arm and a top hitting prospect. Yankee fans have filled in the gaps for this to mean Joba Chamberlain or Phil Hughes along with Jesus Montero or Austin Jackson. That’s not an unreasonable expectation for Toronto’s initial demand.

When or if a trade goes down, Toronto’s price will come down, and with Halladay’s desire to see this wrapped up before Spring Training, the Yanks can wait out the Blue Jays. It’s beginning to look like The Son of Johan Santana. But not quite, as Buster Olney writes today.

In one of his better blog posts in recent months, Olney challenges the Yankees to be perfectly honest with themselves. We know that they publicly say Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes are both starters with high ceilings, but after a few years of watching the pair develop, Olney wants the baseball experts in the organization to lay it on the line. I quote at length:

But here are a couple of things that are different since the Santana talks: Hughes and Chamberlain. They are two years older, two years further along, with (generally) two more years of major league service time. Both players will be eligible for salary arbitration for the first time after next season. Hughes, 23, is coming off a year in which he demonstrated that he could be a shut-down reliever during the regular season — he struck out 96 in 86 innings, with a 3.04 ERA — before he struggled in October. Chamberlain, 24, had flashes of excellence as a starter, but generally was erratic, before finishing his year with some strong outings in the postseason.

If I were sitting in Brian Cashman’s chair, I would identify the smartest pitching people I have on my staff, whether it be manager Joe Girardi or pitching coach Dave Eiland or others, and I would ask them two questions: What are Hughes and Chamberlain now, and what do you think they will be going into the future?

In other words, do you think in three years they will be middle relievers? Do you think they will be dominant closers? Do you think they will settle in as back-of-the-rotation starters, or do you think they will be frontline AL East starters?

And if the smart people that Cashman trusts believe that Hughes and/or Chamberlain will be anything other than (A) dominant closers, or (B) No. 2-type AL East starters, well, then I’d call Toronto immediately and be ready to talk about trading one or perhaps even both of the young pitchers.

Olney is spot on right here. For three years, we’ve been touting the Big Three and the youth movement, but at some point, the Yankees have to recognize when to cash in some of their chips. I don’t know if Roy Halladay is the right move to make; I don’t know if now is the right time. After all, we can’t consider Joba or Phil disappointments, let alone busts, until years have gone by, and it’s very challenging to predict the baseball future.

But if the Yankees’ experts — if the men and women assembled in Tampa — are not sold on a stellar future for either of these young players, the time to make a move is nigh. As pitchers go, they don’t come much better than Roy Halladay, and the Yanks must ask, “What price an ace?”

Filed Under: Hot Stove League Tagged With: Roy Halladay

Pondering a pinstriped Halladay but only for a year

December 2, 2009 by Benjamin Kabak 167 Comments

One of the Yanks’ primary objections to any trade for Roy Halladay is the need to, in effect, pay twice to acquire the pitcher. The team will have to send some highly-touted prospects and a young Major League pitcher to the Blue Jays for the rights to Halladay, and then the Yanks would have to sign him to a long-term contract extension as the pitcher sits just one season away from a potential free agent payday.

We have, of course, been down this road before. In December 2007, the Yankees opted against acquiring Johan Santana because the team knew CC Sabathia would be available for just money after the 2008 season. This year, the team has been hesitant to leap into the Halladay fray because they know some top pitchers will hit free agency in both 2010 and 2011. Even if Doc is better and more durable than Santana, the Yankees aren’t going to change an approach that led to a World Series title.

But what if the Yankees only have to pay once for Halladay this year while gaining the opportunity to recoup some of the cost? Joel Sherman presents a one-year scenario in The Post today, and it goes a little something like this:

[O]ne faction of the Yankee front office has advocated trying to trade for Halladay, but not extend his pact. That way they would get Halladay on a very good contract for 2010 ($16 million) and then offer him arbitration after the season to secure two draft picks as a way to recoup some of the prospects given up in the trade.

According to Sherman, this idea is “not a strategy with much traction” within the Yankee Front Office, but I like the approach. It carries with it an idea that the Yankees would not have to give up as much to the Blue Jays if they aren’t requesting a negotiating window. It would simply be a player-for-prospects swap that would net the Yankees Roy Halladay’s age 33 season and the potential to pick up two first-round draft picks in the 2011 draft. With the Blue Jays are reportedly asking for a Major League-ready pitcher and an impact bat, the draft picks would definitely help offset the loss of young players.

Furthermore, Toronto could prefer this approach as well. What happens, for example, if the Blue Jays grant a team a negotiating window, but the team and Halladay can’t come to terms? Sherman, in a blog post, reported that Halladay is interested in Santana/Sabathia dollars, but Halladay will be five years older than those two were when they received their lucrative deals. It’s easy to see how a negotiating window could result in no trade.

There are, however, a few too many roadblocks for me to believe that a one-year rental would be a viable solution. First, the Blue Jays would have to feel that the Yankees’ offer remains the strongest even if other teams want the negotiating window. Perhaps, though, the other teams — assumed to be the Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels and Phillies — aren’t too keen on giving too many years and too much money for a 33-year-old pitcher. If no one wants a negotiating window, the Jays may not have that leverage. Right now, no one knows.

The other major problem is Roy Halladay’s full no-trade clause and his desire for some stability. With the no-trade clause, Halladay can veto any trade, and if a team is not willing to give him the dollars, he will simply reject the trade and file for free agency. Additionally, Halladay knows that the next deal he signs will be his last big contract, and he’ll want the stability and the guaranteed money up front. For pitchers, the end is just one arm injury away.

In the end, the idea of a one-year marriage with Roy Halladay is very appealing. It remains, however, a long-shot to come as the end to this saga. And so we wait for the Halladay sweepstakes to take shape.

Filed Under: Hot Stove League Tagged With: Roy Halladay

Rumor du jour: Halladay won’t accept a trade after Spring Training

December 1, 2009 by Mike 90 Comments

Buster Olney is reporting that Blue Jays ace Roy Halladay “will not approve any proposed deal after he reports to spring training,” effectively setting a deadline for a trade. Johan Santana set a similar deadline two years ago, and the Halladay situation is starting to mirror the Johan sweepstakes almost to a T. I’m guessing now we’ll hear non-stop reports about what the Yankees and Red Sox are offering, only to have him land with Philly or something.

Filed Under: Asides, Hot Stove League Tagged With: Roy Halladay

Celebrating a Halladay weekend

November 28, 2009 by Benjamin Kabak 74 Comments

Much as 2007 was the Winter of Johan, 2009 is shaping up to be a Very Merry Halladay. (OK, OK. I’ll stop with the bad puns now.) We’ve heard all about how the Blue Jays are making Roy Halladay available, how the team is willing to trade him within in the AL East and how they want a Major League-ready arm and bat as well as other prospects in exchange.

With these demands as a starting point, then, it’s little wonder that Joe yesterday expressed his belief that a trade would not be consummated any time soon. No team is going to be too willing to give up two cost-controlled players for one year plus the right to (over)pay Halladay for a few more years. If the Blue Jays want to turn Halladay into something younger and cheaper, they are probably going to have to reduce their demands.

But there is another wild card in these negotiations. What of Halladay? When the Jays’ ace signed his three-year, $40-million extension in March 2006, Toronto granted him a full no-trade clause. Alex Anthopoulos can talk until he is blue in the face, but unless Roy signs off on the deal, he ain’t goin’ nowhere.

Last night, we learned that Roy Halladay appears willing to waive that NTC for the Yanks. Bob Elliot, a Toronto-based sports writer, fills us in:

Will Roy Halladay leave Toronto via the same route as ex-Blue Jays aces David Cone and Roger Clemens?

…It has always been a possibility. Now that chance has been upgraded. “I don’t know who Toronto will wind up with,” a major league executive said Friday. “I don’t know when he is going and I don’t know where he’s going. But I do know that Halladay has told the Jays he’ll approve a trade to the Yankees.”

…Halladay has never said yeah or nay to the Yanks and still hasn’t, but this third party news clears the decks for Halladay to follow the path of Cone and Clemens.

Halladay, reports Elliot, has already said that he would block trades to both the Twins and Rangers, among others, and he feels that this news opens up an avenue to New York for the Jays’ ace. Still, though, if the price remains Jesus Montero along with either Joba Chamberlain or Phil Hughes and other prospects — or simply Jesus plus one of those two pitchers — it’s too steep a deal, too high a price for the Yanks. Brian Cashman has held on to his blue chips through thick and thin, through Johan and a bad 2008. He won’t change course so soon. Across town, Elena Gustines and Jay Schreiber of The Times urge the Mets to take Vernon Wells with Halladay, but the Yanks shouldn’t even consider that move.

Meanwhile, while Halladay remains a big name out there, the Marlins may have thrown a wrench into Toronto’s plans. John Perrotto, via Twitter, says that he “keeps hearing” that the Marlins are “very willing to trade Josh Johnson right now for the right package.” Joe Frisaro, the beat writer for the Marlins’ official site, disputes that notion. I am of the belief that any player is generally always available for the right price, and if the Larry Beinfest gets a good offer, he won’t hesitate to pull the trigger.

Now, we’ve gone on record with our interest in Josh Johnson. He has the stuff to succeed in the AL East, and his peripherals suggest he will. He will be just 26 come Opening Day 2010 and figures to have his peak years ahead of him. If the Yanks are going to sell some of the farm on a pitcher this year, I’d rather see them go after Johnson than Halladay. Both, it seems, are available, and the Hot Stove machinations are starting to heat up.

Filed Under: Hot Stove League Tagged With: Josh Johnson, Roy Halladay

What the Blue Jays seek for Halladay

November 27, 2009 by Joe Pawlikowski 129 Comments

Don’t expect the Roy Halladay rumors to fade away anytime soon. Until the Blue Jays trade their ace, he’ll remain atop the baseball conversation topics. That could be sometime soon, or it could last all the way until July 31. Because the Yankees are the richest team in baseball and perpetually hunt for pitching, stories about Halladay will involve them. I’m already resigned to a few months of Halladay speculation.

We know the suitors. The Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, Phillies and even the Mets will factor into the process. A smaller market team might get involved later in the process, but at this point it would be an upset for Halladay to land with anyone else. What we don’t know, though, is Toronto’s asking price. Writers have addressed it, picking out the top prospects from the involved teams. But do those players fit with Toronto’s many needs?

In his National Post column, Jeremy Sandler writes of a modern day reality. As we know, “there will be a whole lot of unfounded and unrealistic talk as the process goes on, especially in an Internet age where even the flimsiest premise can gain traction if repeated enough times.” I’d like to continue this tradition by repeating a rumor Sandler introduces just a few paragraphs later. It’s not completely new, but it might offer some perspective on Toronto’s asking price.

The Jays want a major league-ready arm and bat, both young and affordable enough to stay in Toronto a while, plus prospects for Halladay.

That sounds like an awful lot to ask for a 33-year-old pitcher who will earn close to $16 million and is a year away from free agency. Yet Sandler leaves the terms ambiguous enough for us to wonder what players fill those needs. After all, it’s one thing to be a major league ready bat, but it’s another to be a major league ready bat with serious potential.

Both the Yankees and the Red Sox fill the major league ready arm requirement. The Yankees have Chamberlain and Hughes, while the Sox have Clay Buchholz. Neither team wants to trade those young, controllable arms, but perhaps would consider it for Halladay. Both teams also have high-ceiling prospects in the lower minors, who would presumably fill the “plus prospects” portion of the deal. But what of the major league ready bat?

Some scouts consider Jesus Montero’s bat ready for the majors, though his catching skills still need seasoning. As Jon Heyman tweets, the Jays like Montero. Then again, all 30 teams probably like him. I won’t harp on this, since we’ve said it dozens of times before, but both Montero and one of Hughes an Chamberlain is too much. One reason is that all three have high ceilings. Another is that trading one means the Yankees are upgrading from one to Halladay. How much is that upgrade worth? I don’t think it’s worth one of those pitchers and Montero.

The question from Boston’s end is of who can fill that major league bat parameter? Lars Anderson isn’t major league ready. Nor is Casey Kelly. Josh Reddick is, and perhaps the Sox would trade him and Buchholz for Halladay. But would the Jays accept that? I guess that depends on how the market develops. If the Red Sox plan to snag Halladay early, though, that probably won’t get it done.

For the Yanks, Austin Jackson would fit the major league ready bat bill. But with Vernon Wells stuck in Toronto for the forseeable future, it’s uncertain whether the Jays would add another center fielder. That brings us back to Montero, at which point the Yankees would probably want to substitute Hughes or Chamberlain for a lesser pitching prospect, probably Zack McAllister. At that point, the Jays would probably decide to sit and wait.

There are other suitors, and perhaps those teams are willing to part with players that match the Jays’ parameters. As it concerns the Yankees, they certainly have the pieces required to land Halladay. The question is of whether they’d be willing to surrender them. Jesus and Hughes/Chamberlain seems like too much. Jackson and one of the pitchers doesn’t seem to fit the Jays’ needs. Jesus and McAllister is more reasonable from the Yankees standpoint, but not much meet Toronto’s requirements.

I ultimately agree with Ken Rosenthal on this issue. “It would be an upset if [Halladay negotiations] ended anytime soon.”

Filed Under: Irresponsible Rumormongering Tagged With: Roy Halladay

What the Red Sox’s ‘full court press’ of Halladay means for the Yankees

November 25, 2009 by Joe Pawlikowski 204 Comments

In an unsurprising development, the Daily News reports that the Red Sox plan to aggressively pursue Roy Halladay early this off-season. According to the News’s source, the Sox want this done before the Winter Meetings. That puts pressure on the Yankees, who haven’t even determined their 2010 budget yet.

The Yankees do not want Halladay to land with their toughest division rival. With a rotation headed by Halladay, Jon Lester, and Josh Beckett, the Sox would have the best rotation in the AL, and probably in the majors. The Yankees have their top two set with CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett, but even then they’d have to add a significant No. 3 to match the Sox’s prospective top pitchers. So what should the Yankees do in this situation?

Pursuing Halladay themselves makes sense. As with the Mark Teixeira sweepstakes, the Yankees could pull a huge swing, adding Halladay to their rotation and dubbing it the best in the game, while leaving the Red Sox in the dust. There’s a certain attractiveness to that plan, especially coming less than a year after it happened with Teixeira. The emotion of trumping the Red Sox, however, should not derail the Yankees long-term plans.

As in 2007, the Yankees face the issue of paying in both players and dollars for a front-line pitcher. There are certain situations where this makes sense. In others it doesn’t. The Yankees felt that paying such a bounty for Johan Santana wasn’t worth it at the time, and could feel the same way about Halladay now. He would cost them three or four prospects, plus a long-term extension, possibly in the $100 million range. Is that type of deal worth it for a 33-year old pitcher? Or is Halladay the exception, like Curt Schilling and Randy Johnson?

For the money, Halladay is probably worth it. He’s suffered minor injuries over the past few years, but has spent minimal time on the DL and has kept his innings counts among the highest in the league. In fact, Halladay spent two weeks on the DL in June of last season and still ended up with 239 innings, second most in the AL by one measly inning. His innings totals get so high because he finishes more games than any other starter — he’s led the league (or tied for the lead) in complete games for the past three seasons, and has led the league five times over his career.

The question facing the Yankees is of whether they want Halladay in their long-term plans. This is completely independent of any Red Sox rumors. True, Halladay on the Sox hurts the Yankees, but they can’t make long-term decisions based on their opponents. They have to figure out what players fit their plan, both in terms of the players themselves and the cost of acquiring them. If they feel that Halladay is an organizational fit and that the cost of acquiring him isn’t prohibitive, they should make a move to cut off the Red Sox. If they feel they can achieve the same effect with other pitchers, then they should bow out, even if it means the Sox landing Halladay.

If the Yankees decided to pursue Halladay, I think they have the pieces to top a Red Sox offer. In the Daily News report, Mark Feinsand and Bill Madden speculate that the cost for the Sox will start with starter Clay Buchholz and likely include 2008 draftee Casey Kelly. That’s certainly a strong start to a package, but as the report says, the Red Sox could be loathe to trade him. A Yankees offer of Joba Chamberlain plus Jesus Montero would likely top that. Whether the Yankees are willing to surrender such prospects, however, is a different story. Those are two players with excellent potential.

Based on the above speculation, I think that the Yankees are in an advantageous position regarding Halladay. They have the players to attract Toronto, and I think that unless the Red Sox grossly overpay, the Yankees can top them in most reasonable scenarios. The Red Sox are probably using this aggressive tactic to catch the Yankees flat-footed, putting pressure on them to decide their plans, lest the Red Sox land Halladay without a fight.

It’s easy to say that the Yankees should trade prospects for Halladay, but in a game as complex as baseball, decisions are never that simple. A deal for Halladay would dramatically change the franchise. The Yankees would lose several young, promising players for a 33-year old, plus a likely $100 million contract commitment. If they think that Halladay gives them the best chance to win, in 2010 and beyond, they should pull the trigger. If they think that their young players are poised to contribute, they should back off. The only effect the Red Sox should have on this decision is the timing. Other than that, the Yankees need to make the decision based on their own needs and projections, and not based on blocking a rival.

Filed Under: Hot Stove League Tagged With: Roy Halladay

For Halladay, cost would include Phil or Joba

November 23, 2009 by Benjamin Kabak 179 Comments

As Roy Halladay continues to hover above this off-season as Johan Santana did two years ago, the Blue Jays’ demands for him are coming into view. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, Alex Anthopoulous, the new Toronto GM, will have to make a splash if he ships out Halladay. He’ll need a good, young, sure bet to take Halladay’s place and set Toronto on the path to AL East competitiveness.

With that in mind, it is clear that any trade talks with the Yanks would involve the names Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes being bandied about. After all, these are two kids who can get out AL East hitters while pitching in pressure-packed stadiums in New York and Boston. What GM wouldn’t try to demand one of the two from Brian Cashman?

Yesterday, in his regular Sunday round-up in the Boston Globe, Nick Cafardo confirmed that the Jays would readily give up Halladay for Phil or Joba. He wrote:

The Yankees could easily get into the Roy Halladay hunt if they’re willing to part with Phil Hughes or Joba Chamberlain, which they apparently are. The one player they’d love to hold on to is Austin Jackson, their future center fielder who could keep their outfield costs low.

This is a tantalizing tidbit from Cafardo for so many reasons, and as we like to talk about rumors, talk about it we shall. First, Cafardo casually mentions that the Yankees are “apparently” willing to part with Hughes or Joba. This unsourced development is a drastic turnaround from recent years when the Yankees have not wanted to let any of their young pitchers out of their grasp, and I’m not so sure I believe it here.

As with Santana, Roy Halladay comes with one year guaranteed and the option to negotiate for more. He will be 33 on Opening Day, a good four years older than Santana was on Opening Day 2008 when he made his Mets debut, and while Halladay may be more durable and better equipped to deal with the rigors of age than Santana, the Yanks would be acquiring one year of an old pitcher for a few years of Joba or Phil. If it didn’t make sense a few years ago before we had a better sense of what Joba or Phil could do, it doesn’t make too much sense now.

Next, Cafardo’s belief that Austin Jackson is “the one player” the Yanks would love to hold on to seemingly flies in the face of conventional wisdom. While Cafardo mentions Jesus Montero in another paragraph about the Yanks’ catching prospects, I find it hard to believe that Montero would be made available over Austin Jackson. Montero has a better bat and plays one of the key up-the-middle positions. Jackson profiles as a future center fielder, but Montero ranks higher up on my the Yanks’ prospects list. I’d be far more open to moving A-Jax than I would Montero (or Hughes and Joba, for that matter).

Cafardo’s piece allows us to confirm the high price for Halladay, but anyone following the Blue Jays would know it already. I don’t believe the Yanks intend to trade Phil or Joba for Halladay, and I don’t think the team should.

Filed Under: Irresponsible Rumormongering Tagged With: Austin Jackson, Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes, Roy Halladay

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